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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPC Minutes 1973-05-15492 Arroyo Grande Planning Commission May 15, 1973 The Arroyo Grande Planning Commission met in regular session with Chairman Jones presiding. Present are Commissioners Calhoon, Gullickson, Pope and Spierling. Commissioners Goulart and Porter are absent. Also in attendance are City Administrator Butch, City Engineer Gering, Director of Public Works Anderson, and Planning Director Gallop. MINUTE APPROVAL On motion by Commissioner Gullickson, seconded by Commissioner Spierling, and unanimoulsy carried, the minutes of the regular meeting of May 1, 1973 were approved as prepared. CONTINUATION m PROPOSED TALLY HO ROAD PLAN LINE City Engineer Garing stated that he has a financial interest in a parcel of property on Tally Ho Road and, therefore, felt it would be better if he did not discuss the Plan Line. Public Works Director Anderson, in discussing the proposed plan line, suggested that the easterly straight portion of the street commencing at the easterly edge of Mr. Cook's property on the south side, and the beginning of the curve on the north side, be considered, and leave the curved section of the street to Le Point for further design and engineering consideration. Mr. Cook, 160 Tally Ho Road, asked why the City wanted to delete that area of the Plan Line. Mr. Anderson stated that he felt the northerly side was the most important because of problems with drainage and traffic capacity, and that the whole road needs designing in that area. He pointed out that the City can't develop a grade until they know where the right- of-way is going to be and what kind of a road section they are going to have. COUNCILMAN MILLIS ENTERED THE MEETING Mr. Anderson pointed out that there are too many problems in the curve area to try to establish a plan line at this time, and he did not think there would be any further development that would encroach on the turn. Commissioner Spierling stated he was concerned about the slope of the driveway at 195 Tally Ho Road, and asked how much the plan line would move the driveway back. Mr. Anderson advised that the two driveways are practically inaccessible now, and the proposed plan line would move the property fine back about 10', making the driveways more inaccessible than they are now. He stated that new driveways would have to be developed and new access to;-the properties, and he didn't feel we should sacrifice the whole road because /of two drive- ways. Mr. Mark Strand, 191 Tally Ho Road, stated he has the property rented to two boys and each have a car and he has not had any complaints from either of them, and that if the plan line takes 10' off in front, it will be totally inaccessible. Chairman Jones declared the hearing reopened. Mr. Harold Lee, 199 Tally Ho Road, stated he was also representing property owners at 181 and 175 Tally Ho Road, and that the City has some responsibility to the property owners in that the driveways were permitted to be built and OK'd by City inspectors. He further stated that he felt the people of Tally Ho Road have not had enough of a say in how or what should be done and would like to request that there be a continuance and a more representative study with the parties involved, and allow additional time to study the plan line and make it more feasible, even if it doesn °t pertain to the same straight direction, perhaps it could be made more of a curving road and enable the street to be developed where it wouldn't affect the ingress and egress of driveways if it were realigned to more suitably fit the needs of the property owners involved. Mrs. Mildred Logan, 195 Tally Ho Road, stated her driveway is very steep and if the plan line is to move her property line back 10 °, this would make the driveway impossible to use. Arroyo Grande Planning Commission; 5 -15 -73 Page 2 Mr. Chuck Reed, 150 Tally Ho Road, questioned as to why the 60° road- way is needed. Mr. Anderson explained that a road is classified accord Ong to the amount of traffic it will carry, and this road is classified as a corle ctor road, with 44' improved width curb to curb and two 8° sidewalk areas. He stated with regard to the curved portion of the road, they are proposing a 28° curb to curb width, a 3' sidewalk area on the inside, and a 5° sidewalk area on the out- side of the curve, with no parking. Mr. Vincent Lechner, 331 Tally Ho Road, stated it seems this would make an attractive road from Highway 227, running traffic to this bottleneck, and" felt the two lane road with sidewalks right next to them would be more dangerous. He stated with regard to drainage; he didn't think. it would chhange the water problem and referred to a statement from the Engineers who made a study of the water problem, that the water comes from outside the area. Mr. Cook inquired if the City would have any objection to this group bringing in a competent engineer to work in conjunction with Mr. Anderson to solve,this simple problem. Mr. Chuck Reed stated he received a call from`Mr: O'Neil, who is one of the property owners on the curve, requesting him to " advise the Commission that he is opposed to the plan,line. Mr. Mike Duckworth, 136 Tally Ho Road, stated he is opposed to the plan line. Mr. John Sprague, 212 Tally Ho Road, stated he has some large pine trees in front of his property and would not want to lose them, and inquired as to who is going to pay for all of these improvements. Mr. Anderson stated that at the present time, the City has no plans for financing or building this road, but what they are trying to do now is formulate some kind of plan so that they have a way to go and protect the plan for future improvement. Mr. Lee inquired if the property owners could have as much as 90 days in order to come to some agreement on a plan to submit to the Planning Commission. Mr. Anderson explained that next winter we are going to have some more problems, and if development does come on the north side of Tally Ho Road, the City is going to have to have some kind of guide in there. Mrs. Elizabeth Jackson, 998 Sycamore Drive, commented that if there were going to be problems this winter coming up because of possible development, that until the drainage is solved, suggested that the City not grant any more permits in that area. Director Gallop advised that to deny a property owner the use of his property could leave the City open to lawsuit.' Mr. Lyon, 168 Tally Ho Road, inquired if it is mandatory to put in sidewalks, and felt that curb and gutter would solve the flooding problem. Mr. Anderson stated that curb and gutter would help the flooding and will protect the surfacing, and that with a building permit, the City does re- quire that curb, gutter and sidewalks be installed. He further stated that sidewalks are necessary to give the children a place to walk; you can't have children walking In the driving lane of the street. Because of the hill and the narrow roadway and the 40' width, what we propose is a 28' curb to curb width and a 5' sidewalk on one side only in the curve area. We do need a sidewalk and we do need the two driving lanes. In answer to Commissioner Gullickson's question regarding existing plan lines on Lopez Drive, Halcyon, Elm Street and Cherry Avenue, Mr. Anderson stated that Cherry Avenue has been plan lined for two years; Halcyon has been plan lined for about 10 years; Elm Street had been plan lined for 8 or 9 years; and Lopez Drive plan lined for 4 or 5 years. He again advised that plan lines are mandatory If there is any development adjacent to the road because If people start building, then the City is going to be purchasing the structures. With reference to the curve 'area, Mr. Cook stated he has seen hills ten times that large,and particularly 'referred to Lopez Drive to Lopez Lake, taken down and graded down. Mr. Duckworth, 136 Tally Ho Road, inquired if there will be any zoning change on Tally Ho Road? Chairman Jones advised that we are not planning any zone change on Tally Ho Road right now; some - one may come In tomorrow and request a building permit. Mr. Reed advised that he had a registered civil= engineer take samples of this hill and advised It would be no problem at all moving the hill. He Inquired If the property owners could get together with a civil engineer and he gives an opinion, would the City consider the opinion? 493 494 Arroyo Grande Planning Commission, 5 - 15 - 73 Page 3 Mr. Anderson pointed out that he never stated the hill could not be moved; there would be some difficulty and it would be very expensive. All the City is trying to do is work out something that is reasonable; both economically and - safe. Mr. Lee again inquired if they could be granted a 90 day continuation, stating he felt the people on Tally Ho Road haven °t been taken into consideration enough and would like to submit a plan of their own to be appraised by their engineers and the Planning Commission, and if 90 days is not possible, they would be very happy to have 60 days. Commissioner Gullickson remarked it was his understanding that if a man owns a piece of ground and applies for a building permit, the City can't refuse to give him a building permit, and inquired if there are any steps that can be taken now to say we don't want to ;issue building permits in that area right now. Director Gallop pointed out that the City would have no basis for denying the people the use of, their property, and the City would be open to lawsuit if this action were taken. Commissioner Pope stated he didn't see any way that the City is going to be able to go in and do any drainage work, and suggested the Chair entertain a motion that this be delayed for a 60 day period for further evaluation. Mr. Anderson commented that the reason the City put this plan line up for consideration was to give the people in the area a chance to revrew it and see if we can't come up with a reasonable solution, and perhaps working with a citizen's group to develop a plan line that will result in a safe street for the area. Mrs. Jane Frisby inquired that if it might be 10 years before all of this comes about, does that mean it will be 10 years before anything can be done about the drainage, and if there was any connection between this plan line and the proposed housing development on Tally Ho Road. Mr. Anderson replied that the only thing that does influence this plan is that there is some vacant property in there that is going to rely on Tally Ho Road for access. Mrs. Frisby asked who Tally Ho Enterprises is and who wished to put in a housing development right in a natural drainage channel? City Engineer Gering stated that he is involved in Tally Ho Enterprises. Mrs. Betty Reed, 150 Tally Ho Road, stated she couldn't see why park- ing lanes are needed; everyone has plenty of driveways to accommodate their own cars and their guests. Chairman Jones pointed out that all City streets have parking lanes available. No further discussion for or against the proposed Tally Ho Road Plan Line, Chairman Jones declared the hearing closed. On motion by Commissioner Spierling, seconded by Commissioner Pope, and unanimously carried, that the citizens of the Tally Ho Road area be per- mitted to hire an engineer at their own expense to work with the City staff to develop an acceptable alternate plan line and to work out recommendations to this Commission prior to July 15th of this year. Director Gallop advised that the hearing has been closed, and that a new public hearing can be called based upon new evidence presented. Commissioner Pope explained to the audience that the motion presented allows a postponement of the Planning" Commission decision until the property owners on Tally Ho Road have had an opportunity to seek outside advice and meet with the engineering staff of the City to come up with a proposal by July 15th so that a decision can be made at that time. Director Gallop advised that the matter would be on the Agenda for the second meeting in July. CAL POLY EXTENSION COURSE Director Gallop referred to a letter sent to the Commission with their agenda from Cal Poly regarding a planning course to be considered and to be oriented primarily toward Planning Commission members. He pointed out that at this point they are merely asking for an expression as to how many people might be interested in taking this course. The Planning Commissioners present indicated an interest in such a course, depending on what evening the course would be scheduled. Arroyo Grande Planning Commission, 5- 15 -73 Page 4 DEVELOPMENT PLANS FOR SUNRISE TERRACE MO,BILEHOME PARK FORMERLY "CUE'PO VISTA" MOBILEHOME PARK Director Gallop pointed out that several weeks ago the Planning Commission reviewed the status of the mobilehome park on Valley Road, and that the Developer, Mr. H. C. Elliott, comes before the Commission now with the fiial development plans in compliance with the requirement set out under Item 25, Resolution No. 72 -244 U, adopted March 7, 1972, and that landscaping plans are still to be presented to the Commission for their consideration. He advised there is a change in the develop- ment plans between what was approved in March of 1972 and the plan which is before the Commission now, and that a change is acceptable providing ehe change is better than that which was originally approved by the Commission. The alternate plan being presented tonight is based upon the outline adopted by Resolution No. 72 -244 U, but is a refinement of it. He 'stated that there is a maximum of 300 lots permitted on the original Use Permit. Mr. Harry Elliott, subdivider from Walnut Creek, explained that he had retained Mr. George Kemmeny to do a refinement of the original plan, in that it did not take care of the natural contour of the ground. He explained the changes to the original plan and the reasons for such changes. He advised the storage was enlarged and put up in n more remote area of the park, making It a safer storage area and keeping the boats, trailers, etc. away from the front of the park. He pointed out they tried to take as much advantage of the view of the valley as possible, and have provided for another small laundry area. Mr. George Kemmeny, Engineer, Tustin, California, pointed out that the original lots were too small for the coaches they wish to accommodate; that the drainage channel is 4' deep and 40' wide so it is not dangerous; and that the plan provides the same number of lots but they are taking the whole area into consideration, which means the iota are larger. It was pointed out that Valley Road is presently a 50' right - of-way and that it will be increased to an 80' right -of -way. Mr. Kemmeny pointed out there will be parking along the concrete curbs because the street is 32' wide, and all interior streets are one way streets to reduce the traffic. Chairman Jones stated that on the previous plan there was a great deal of off - street parking and on this plan they have on- street parking. Director Gallop pointed out that they have supplemented more on- street parking by widening the street than was on the original plan. He further noted that he liked the transfer of the storage area to the top of the hill, providing there Is screening planted so that it is not visible from Valley Road or abutting properties, and the screening will come up in the landscaping plan. A rendering of the recreation building was presented, and Director Gallop stated it was a rather impressive building with the open heavy beam construc- tion. As there was no further discussion, on motion by Commissioner Splerling, seconded by Commissioner Calhoon, and unanimously carried, that the Plans dated April 1973 be accepted as prepared and supersede previous plans, and that the requirements of the Development Plans in Item 25, Resolution No. 72 -244 U, have boon compiled with. ABANDONMENT OF . "JOE" STREET Director Gallop advised that the abandonment of "Joe" Street is a recommendation from the Subdivision Review Board to the Cornmisslon,as a result of a Lot Split consideration on property below and southerly of what.would be the extension of Joe Street. He pointed out that the ele- vation differential between the existing portion of the street at Montego and a projected street from the south would require an exceedingly steep grade and probably would have a very definite adverse affect on the de velopment of the properties on either side of the street extension. If the street is not built, then there would be no need of this "stub ", and it should be disposed of to eliminate maintenance,.and ' it would also provide a building site to whomever the title were to revert to. Mr. Anderson noted that it may be necessary to retain a public utility easement along one side of this street for drainage and perhaps other uses. After discussion, on motion by Commissioner Gullickson, seconded by Commissioner Pope, and unanimously carried, that a public hearing be set for consideration of the disposal of "Joe" Street. 496 7r Arroyo Grande Planning Commission, 5-15-73 Page 5 ABSENCE OF COMMISSIONER GULLICKSON Commissioner Gullickson informed the Commission that he would be out of town for the next five weeks. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business before the Commission, on motion by Commissioner Spierling, seconded by Commissioner Calhoon, and unanimously carried, the meeting was adjourned at 9:30 P.M. ATTEST: