PC Minutes 1997-10-211
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ARROYO GRANDE PLANNING COMMISSION
OCTOBER 21, 1997
The Arroyo Grande Planning Commission met in regular session with Chair Lubin presiding.
Present are Commissioners O'Donnell, Rondeau and Haney. Commissioner Greene is absent.
Associate Planner Bruce Buckingham and Assistant Public Works Director Craig Campbell are
also in attendance.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
On motion by Commissioner Haney, seconded by Commissioner O'Donnell, and unanimously
carried, the minutes of the Planning Commission meeting of September 16, 1997 and Special
Joint Meeting of the City Council and Planning Commission of October 1, 1997 were approved
as prepared.
ORAL COMMUNICATIONS
Sara Dickens, 3638 Blair Way, Torrance, California, owner of the property at 769 Branch Mill
Road, stated their farm is located on the southeast end of town. They are faced with the City
of Arroyo Grande exercising their right of eminent domain to obtain part of their farmland to
solve a regional drainage problem. For the sake of development, the City has had to use prime
agricultural land to develop a drainage system so that development can continue unabated. She
stated that rich alluvial soils in a flood plain is not an infinite renewable resource and cannot
continue to be treated that way. The City has a moral responsibility to uphold their commitment
to protect agricultural lands from urban development.
Ms. Dickens advised they received a notice that the City is going to exercise their right of
eminent domain to take 1.38 acres of their land. Initially, the City project started out as an
underground drainage pipe that would only have temporarily affected their farming operations.
Then the project became an 8 foot wide open ditch easement with 15 feet on either side. The
City of Arroyo Grande is exercising its right of eminent domain for acquisition of 50 feet of the
property all along the westerly section of Branch Mill Road, and they are also taking 70 feet by
400 feet along Fast Cherry Avenue.
Jim Dickens. 769 Branch Mill Road, representing the Dixson Ranch Agricultural Preserve,
referred to the City's proposal for a regional drainage solution for the flood waters originating
at Newsom Springs Canyon. He advised the City has given them a notice of acquisition of 1.38
acres of Class 1 Prime farmland The Newsom Springs drainage problem is not a new issue;
a comprehensive drainage solution was proposed in 1984 -85 and has been a highly debated issue
throughout the Coker Ellsworth project planning. Now within the past two months, City staff
is pushing a less than adequate concept which has far reaching implications. He stated, it is
their opinion, this project is moving in a very expedited fashion; they want to see this project
addressed adequately and a long term solution developed. Also, they want to ensure the
continued viability of farming. Some of the questions they need answers to are: What is the
project; as of yesterday, John Wallace was unable to give him a copy of the Newsom Springs
drainage project because it is in the preliminary stages of design. If this is true, then how the
City know just how much of this property to acquire; what hydraulic studies have been done to
justify this proposed project; how many cubic feet of water is this project expected to withstand;
why hasn't the City taken advantage of the Flood Control engineers from the Natural Resources
Conservation Services, and why has the project concept grown from an underground pipe system
to an 8 foot open ditch to a 20 foot open ditch in the past two weeks? Also, what is the time
line and maintenance plan and revegetation plan for this project?
Arroyo Grande Planning Commission Page 2
October 21, 1997
Mr. Dickens stated his family would like to offer an alternative plan to the City of Arroyo
Grande, as follows: "Acknowledging the City's long term commitment to the preservation of
agricultural land as stated in the current General Plan and the Land Conservation Contract
between the City of Arroyo Grande and the Gordon F. Dixson Trust, we offer an alternative
proposal to the property acquisition as presented in the letter from Christine C. Fitzgerald, dated
October 13, 1997. This alternative is proposed to alleviate the increasing current concerns about
flooding during the expected weather and unusual winter, and to create additional time for
suitable long range planning to address the drainage project closer to the source of the problem.
We propose that the City of Arroyo Grande obtain a temporary limited term easement of the said
real property legally described in the attachment Exhibit "A" and Diagram Exhibit "B" to
address the potential flooding for this winter's 1997 -1998 storms. This said easement would be
temporary and limited to three years, renewable upon agreement with both parties. Property
owner to be compensated through a lease agreement with the City based on a price of $500.00
an acre per year. The City of Arroyo Grande develop a permanent drainage solution at the
source of the water problem at the inlet near Newsom Springs Road."
In closing, Mr. Dickens read the first portion of the Land Conservation Contract between the
City of Arroyo Grande and the Gordon F. Dixson Trust, entered into on the 20`a day of January
1977.
Nanci Parker. 129 E. Cherry Avenue, stated she spoke to the City Council last week about the
water flow from Newsom Springs runoff that comes down and turns on the Dixson's property,
and the fact that Cocker Ellsworth's property is being raised by four feet concerned her and the
neighbors that live around there. She stated she looked at the plans, and a 90 degree turn for
water not make sense and n't look like it would work. She referred to the alternative offered
by the Dixson Estate tonight for a temporary solution until a permanent solution can be offered,
stating maybe that needs to be considered.
Larry Turner. 323 Noguera Place, referred to a letter he wrote to the City Council, dated
October 21, 1997 regarding the Newsom Springs water drainage problem. He stated perhaps
the temporary easement offered by the Dixson Estate may be a good choice for the short range
approach.
Otis Page, 606 Myrtle Street, spoke regarding review of the Wal -Mart project, stating that the
issue revolved around the fact whether there was substantial conformance or not; the City staff
took the position that there was substantial conformance. The Commission took the position,
after extensive study, that there was a problem, however, the question was never asked whether
the staff agreed with the Commission's assessment. He further stated it bothers him that the
Commission's good work was ignored; this reveals a flaw in the process.
Mr. Page spoke to the issue brought up by the Dickens, and the way the City conducted itself
since this Planning Commission made the decision on the Coker Ellsworth property. At that
time $250,000 was allocated for a resolution of the water drainage of that specific section at East
Cherry and Branch Mill Road. Ten months have gone by and we still don't have a definitive
answer.
Chair Lubin stated he is sure some members of the Commission will look into the above
concerns. The drainage proposal has not been before the Commission, and the Commission has
not been a part of the decision making process.
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Arroyo Grande Planning Commission Page 3
October 21, 1997
NON - PUBLIC HEARING - PRE - APPLICATION REVIEW FOR A FAST FOOD
RESTAURANT WITH DRIVE - THROUGH; APPLICANT: NISSJAC, INC.;
REPRESENTATIVE: MARK VASQUEZ; LOCATION: NORTHWEST CORNER OF
FAEH AVENUE AND EL CAMINO REAL
Associate Planner Bruce Buckingham reviewed the staff report dated October 21, 1997. He
stated the applicant is requesting feedback on a conceptual plan for a fast food restaurant with
drive - through, located at the corner of El Camino Real and Faeh Avenue.
Mr. Buckingham advised that the Staff Advisory Committee has reviewed the project and
discussed several issues and Code requirements. Since that meeting several weeks ago, the
Public Works Department further reviewed an existing 20 foot easement along El Camino Real
for road purposes and, in looking at that, because the easement could be used for future
widening of El Camino Real, staff would recommend that no parking spaces be developed within
that easement as now shown on the plans.
Mr. Buckingham noted that the pre - application review is not a public hearing, however, in this
case all property owners within 300 feet of the project were notified. This was not required by
law, but by the applicant's choice. He summarized that the applicant is seeking feedback on
0 whether the Planning Commission would support the proposed project and the Planning
Commission should consider providing feedback on what issues or concerns exist regarding the
conceptual plan.
In answer to Commissioner Haney's question regarding the 20 foot easement, Mr. Buckingham
advised the reason staff feels it is preferable just to landscape the area is if, in the future, it is
widened, only the landscaping would have to be removed and not improvements.
Commissioner Rondeau inquired about the width of the driveway that comes out on to Faeh
Avenue Assistant Public Works Director Craig Campbell advised it appears to be approximately
26 feet. Commissioner Rondeau expressed concern about the feasibility of admitting all of those
automobiles on to Faeh Avenue. Mr. Campbell stated he feels this is a reasonable location,
however, this is something for the Planning Commission to consider. He further stated the
location is close enough to El Camino Real where the traffic is not going to involve a lot of
residences and is set back far enough where the intersection conflicts are not going to be a major
problem. The alternative would be to outlet the traffic on El Camino Real, and that may be
something for the Commission to look at.
Chair Lubin invited the applicant to address the Commission.
Mark Vasquez, representing the applicants, stated this pre - application review is simply a fact -
finding mission; they would like to find out what the Commission's concerns are and what
concerns the neighborhood might have regarding development of this site. He commented that
any development there is going to require circulation and access. What they have attempted to
do in the layout is to provide access from El Camino Real, which it is felt will be the bulk of
the access into the project, but have also aligned an ingress egress point with the intersection of
Alpine Street that could be well controlled. The drive- through access is intended to come in
from one or the other of those points, and the purpose of exiting onto Faeh Avenue is because
it would be a safer maneuver with better sight distance. To come out the other way would
create a difficult turning radius and would also create some congestion at that entry point at El
Camino Real.
Arroyo Grande Planning Commission Page 4
October 21, 1997
Mr. Vasquez stated this is an oddly shaped piece of property; it is triangular and creates a
number of problems from a design standpoint. The triangular point is at the intersection of Faeh
and El Camino Real. The building setbacks prohibit getting the building and parking out there
on the corner, consequently, the corner becomes basically a park. In addition there is a large
landscaped berm area between the drive - through and the restaurant space, and between the
parking and the adjacent neighborhood.
After a brief discussion between the applicant and the Commission, Chair Lubin opened the
discussion for comments from the audience.
Robert Herrera. 324 N. Alpine Street, stated his main concern is air quality. There is a
restaurant there now and with the air stream that comes across that field, they can smell the
cooking every day; if a drive- through restaurant goes in on that site they will be smelling carbon
monoxide coming from the cars parked there waiting for their orders.
Maureen Hei Leia. 324 N. Alpine Street, stated she lives on the corner of Alpine Street and Faeh
Avenue and the traffic is terrible. Another concern she has is with the southbound ramp coming
off of the freeway and the number of cars lined up during the rush hours, and if this drive -
through restaurant goes in, it is going to get worse. She also stated she is concerned about the
exhaust that will be coming from the cars at the drive- through. She suggested the drive- through
exit on El Camino Real; not off of Faeh. Also, she suggested a block wall be constructed to
alleviate some of the noise and exhaust.
Susan Garcia. 619 Faeh Avenue, stated her concern about property values, loitering by
teenagers, delivery trucks coming in at 1:00 in the morning and Taco Bell's hours of operation.
She was also concerned about the current traffic and getting on to Halcyon Road from Faeh in
the morning.
Mary Terra. 315 N. Alpine Street, stated she lives on the west side of Alpine and is very
concerned about the fumes. She stated her husband has a heart condition and emphysema and
has a hard time breathing at times. She was also concerned about the hours the restaurant will
be open.
Lori Hunstad. 304 N. Alpine Street, stated she respects the Commercial Zone and the property
owner's rights to do something with their valued property, but is also concerned about the
residents in the area. The applicant addressed all of the concerns she had and she hopes the
Commission will look very carefully at those concerns when making recommendations to the
City Council such as safety, noise, pollution, lights and traffic. She also stated, in her opinion,
whatever goes onto that property should not be a drive- through.
Yolonda Alarcio. 311 N. Alpine Street, stated she agrees with the other speakers in the
audience. She commented regarding the speed the cars travel between Faeh and Alpine Street.
Michael Friant. 711 Bennett Avenue, stated he is opposed to the entire project; it is totally the
wrong area for a fast food restaurant. He advised they live approximately four blocks from
McDonald's and on a quiet night they can hear the order box from McDonald's; the traffic is
heavy on El Camino Real, Halcyon Road and Faeh right now, and if this goes through it would
be a total nightmare.
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Arroyo Grande Planning Commission Page 5
October 21, 1997
Hearing no further comments, Chair Lubin reserved : further comments to the Planning
Commission.
Commissioner O'Donnell stated he has some real issues with a drive - through next to a
residential area. If a fast food restaurant was to go in here, he would be opposed to a drive -
through, especially a drive- through that has two drives coming on to Faeh. He further stated
that noise, pollution and traffic are his main concerns. The idea of coming up with some kind
of a wall between the property owners on Faeh and the project would help reduce sound, the
pollution to some degree, and the lights of the vehicles. He further stated he would not have
a problem with the design if it was not so close to the residences.
Commissioner Rondeau stated he does not think the particular design of the project would go
well in that neighborhood. He suggested more of a cottage type design using the Taco Bell logo
may be more acceptable. However, his main concern is the noise pollution, the exhaust and the
traffic. He further stated, in his opinion, this piece of property would be better served for office
buildings.
Commissioner Haney stated, in looking at the project, he thinks the design was done reasonably
well for the site, but in looking at commercial projects in proximity to the residential area, it
raises all the questions about the issues in proximity to residential. The traffic problems are real
and are going to get worse, and we do not have a solution for the problems that are at Halcyon
Road, Brisco Road and El Camino Real that are there now in the mornings and afternoons.
There are also problems with noise and air pollution. He stated he believes there is a better
use for this site in terms of its commercial use than a drive- through restaurant in proximity to
a residential area.
Chair Lubin stated one of the things he believes is an extremely important process of the
Planning Commission is to try to bring together the desires of all interested parties, and when
looking at a project, we look at it to see how we can get something that works well. He stated
he was surprised to see the drive - through dump out onto Faeh Avenue. He feels there needs to
be a solution to the traffic problem and to the concerns of the residents of the neighborhood.
He further stated he could be supportive of the project if we take into consideration some of the
residents discussions; if we can find a way to better handle the traffic, and if the landscaping can
be attuned to some of the problems such as the noise, air pollution, etc.
In answer to concerns expressed by the neighbors, Chair Lubin advised that the Commission
would not allow a 24 hour Taco Bell under any conditions. Also, there are certain noise
regulations concerning deliveries and there would not be a delivery truck at Taco Bell at 1:00
in the morning.
Chair Lubin advised the next step of the process is up to the applicant. If they feel this is the
best plan they can come up with, then they can file for a conditional use permit, which will
come back to the Planning Commission for approval. All residents within 300 feet of the project
will be notified of the public hearing.
PLANNING COIVI IISSION /COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR ITEMS AND
COMMENTS
Update of Projects - Associate Planner Buckingham advised that the Taco Bell project scheduled
on the City Council agenda for October 28 can be stricken. He also advised that the Planning
Commission meeting of November 18 will probably have more items than are normally
scheduled.
Arroyo Grande Planning Commission Page 6
October 21, 1997
Mr. Buckingham noted that the Environmental Impact Report for the Arroyo Linda Crossroads
specific plan is now underway. Impact Sciences of Agoura Hills is doing the report. A specific
plan has been resubmitted and copies will be distributed to the Planning Commission as soon as
they are received.
Chair Lubin inquired about the current grading status of the commercial development project in
Rancho Grande. Assistant Public Works Director Craig Campbell estimated it is about a week
and a half to two weeks away.
Planning Commission Appointment to Subcommittee to Oversee and Investigate Alternative
Funding Sources for Roadway and Maintenance, and make recommendations to the City
Council on Funding Alternatives - Mr. Buckingham advised this is a new committee that has
been created and will be looking at funding sources for roadways. On motion by Commissioner
O'Donnell, seconded by Commissioner Haney, and unanimously carried, Commissioner Rondeau
was appointed to the Committee, and Commissioner Haney was appointed as alternate.
WRITTEN COMMUNICATIONS
1. Zoning News - September 1997 Issue.
2. Letter dated October 21, 1997 from Larry and Judith Turner, regarding Newsom Springs
Water Drainage problem.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the Commission, the meeting was adjourned at 9:10 p.m.
on motion by Commissioner O'Donnell, seconded by Commissioner Haney, and unanimously
carried.
ATTEST:
TO CONTENT:
Pearl L. Phinney, Commission C erk
Doreen Libedto- Blanck, AICP
Community Development Director
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