PC Minutes 1995-06-20ARROYO GRANDE PLANNING COMMISSION
June 20, 1995
The Arroyo Grande Planning Commission met in regular session with Chairperson Keen
presiding. Present are Commissioners Tappan, Carr, Deviny and Beck. Commissioners Soto
and Hatchett are absent. Planning Director Doreen Liberto - Blanck and Current Planner Scott
Spierling are in attendance.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
On a motion by Commissioner Tappan, seconded by Commissioner Deviny, and unanimously
carried, the minutes of June 6, 1995 were approved with one correction.
ORAL COMMUNICATIONS - None
PUBLIC HEARING - CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT CASE NO. 95 -535 AND
ASSOCIATED ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW TO CONSTRUCT A 39,636 SQUARE FOOT
YMCA AND APPURTENANT FACILITIES AT 400 WEST BRANCH STREET,
APPLICANT IS SOUTH COUNTY YMCA
Current Planner Spierling, using the overhead projector, showed the main entry ways into the
proposed project and the parking connection to the Women's Club. He discussed parking
including the proposed use of 60 spaces for roller hockey. Mr. Spierling discussed possible
building phases of the proposed facility and passed color boards to the Commissioners. He
ended by stating the Architectural Advisory Committee (AAC) and the Staff Advisory
Committee (SAC) recommended approval of this project.
Chairperson Keen opened the public hearing.
Tony Orefice of RMO Architects, representing the applicant, gave a brief history and explained
various aspects of the proposed project. Mr. Orefice said the staff report was well written and
the only item the applicant requested clarification on was Condition #14 in that they did not
intend to provide a formal path, but rather an informal access way through the landscaping.
Mike Mogensen, General Director of the YMCA, stated he has been involved with the project
for eight years and desirous to move ahead with it. Mr. Mogensen stated that, pending approval
of the proposed CUP, they would go to their Advisory Committee, then to their Corporate Board
of Directors, and begin the process of redoing the needs assessment they did four years ago and
re- checking the floor plan to meet these needs. He said they would do a feasibility study,
determining how much money can be raised for the project. Mr. Mogensen stated they hoped
to raise it all at one time, thereby building the whole facility at one time; however, if that did
not happen they have projected phases based on the amount of monies raised. He said he hoped
to do the feasibility study in February or March of 1996 and would launch a capital campaign
in May or June of 1996, anticipating 1.5 million as a minimum for the first phase and that it
would take 9 to 12 months to raise that amount. Mr. Mogensen stated they hoped to break
ground in 1997 for the whole facility and not just one phase.
With no further comments from the audience, Chairperson Keen closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Carr spoke about his concerns:
• Why are there more parking spaces then required by the Development Code?
• What is the reason for linking the parking lot with the Women's Club?
• How many bike racks are there to accommodate the 13 bikes?
Commissioner Carr stated his concern for so much reliance on the automobiles as part of the
project, and felt the YMCA should set an example for providing alternate transportation modes.
He felt providing 250 parking places and one bicycle rack for a YMCA was disproportionate.
Mr. Orefice responded that the parking spaces were in excess because: 1) the appplicant was
not aware of the lesser figure required by the City until after the plans were made, 2) 60 parking
Arroyo Grande Planning Commission Page 2
June 20, 1995
spaces would be used for roller hockey, and 3) the increased number of parking spaces will meet
community need for such events as the Strawberry Festival, St. Patrick's Carnival, and so forth.
In addition, Mr. Orefice said the YMCA and Women's Club were two community facilities and
he felt they should work together to make sure sufficient parking spaces are available when both
facilities have concurrent events. He stated they could increase the number of bike racks.
Commissioner Carr questioned the elevation of the building to which Mr. Orefice responded.
Commissioner Tappan said he liked the idea of the connection with the Women's Club. He had
a concern about the wooden fence being damaged by roller hockey. Mr. Orefice answered he
preferred a player crashing into a wooden fence, rather than a concrete block fence.
Commissioner Tappan asked about removal of the temporary sign when the building is
completed. Mr. Orefice said the secondary sign location was only if they constructed the project
in phases; however, the logo and YMCA sign would be minor for this project.
Commissioner Tappan discussed the wording of Condition #10, and that stated Condition #50
should read "with" instead of "within ".
Commissioner Deviny about the number of parking spaces provided asked proposed hours and
days of operation. Mr. Mogensen responded 6 A.M. to 9 or 10 P.M., depending on the
services needed, saying it would be open seven days a week, but Sundays usually noon to 4
P.M., depending on the demand and Saturdays were usually shorter hours.
Commissioner Deviny mentioned the number of parking spaces provided seemed excessive. He
asked Mr. Mogensen did he feel there would be 300 to 400 people at the facility at one time.
Mr. Mogensen said they would probably have 300 to 400 people per day and probably 50 people
maximum at one time.
Chairperson Keen asked various questions regarding the phasings to which Mr. Orefice
responded. Chairperson Keen expressed his concern there were not small rooms proposed for
children's activities, and considering the parking proposed it seemed to be oriented toward adults
rather than children. Mr. Mogensen gave reasons why the facility and parking was proposed
as presented.
Commissioner Tappan questioned the applicant regarding traffic mitigation and signalization
fees, saying he would prefer discussing these items now rather than have the applicant take these
items to the City Council. Mr. Orefice said they were ready to pay all the fees if they can, but
did not know at this time whether they might have to request the fees be waived. Commissioner
Tappan told the applicant they were getting such a deal on the property that the City should get
the fees. Mr. Orefice stated it depended on how much money they could raise; that the first
study said they could raise about $800,000, but it would take $1.5 million for phase 1, and they
would like to raise $3 million for the whole facility.
Commissioner Carr asked about the neon lighting for the sign. Mr. Orefice responded it would
be subdued and the only illuminated sign would be the "Y" and the street sign. Commissioner
Carr asked if the "YMCA" lettering was backlighted to which Mr. Orefice stated it would be
backlighted. Commissioner Carr said the proposed "Y" stated neon tubed light. Mr. Orefice
said the neon was inside the box. Chairperson Keen asked if it was covered and Mr. Orefice
responded in the affirmative. Commissioner Carr said he understood it was not a red neon light
outlining the "Y" and Mr. Orefice responded it was not.
Current Planner Spierling read the wording to the Commissioners,
"Plaster screed in wall face with neon tube light." Commissioner Deviny suggested the word
"covered" before the "neon tube light" and Mr. Orefice agreed.
Commissioner Deviny asked about ages of the users of YMCA's. Mr. Mogensen said about
50% of the members were up to the age of 24 and the other 50% comprised seniors and family -
oriented activities.
A motion was made with the following changes:
• Condition #2 - The date June 20, 1997 changed to "June 20, 1998 ".
Arroyo Grande Planning Commission Page 3
June 20, 1995
• Mitigation Measure #10 - In the second sentence, the words "for that phase" shall
be added after the word designs.
• Condition #14 - the words "a path" shall be changed to read "an informal path ".
• Condition #50 - the word "with" to replace the word "within".
• Condition #28a added, as follows:
The applicant shall provide a minimum of 25 bicycle parking
spaces prior to issuance of a Certificate of Occupancy. These
racks may replace two existing parking spaces.
RESOLUTION NO. 95 -1520
A RESOLUTION OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF
ARROYO GRANDE APPROVING CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT CASE
NO. 95 -535 AND THE ASSOCIATED ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW, FOR
CONSTRUCTION OF A YMCA AND RELATED FACILITIES AT 400
WEST BRANCH STREET, APPLIED FOR BY THE SOUTH COUNTY
YMCA; ADOPTION OF A NEGATIVE DECLARATION WITH
MITIGATION MEASURES AND INSTRUCTION THAT THE
SECRETARY FILE A NOTICE OF DETERMINATION
On a motion by Commissioner Tappan, seconded by Commissioner Beck, and by the following
roll call, to wit:
AYES: Commissioners Tappan, Carr, Deviny, Beck and Keen
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioners Soto and Hatchett
the foregoing Resolution was passed and adopted this 20th day of June 1995.
PUBLIC HEARING - TENTATIVE TRACT 2197 AND CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT
(P.U.D.) CASE NO. 95 -534 WITH ASSOCIATED ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW FOR A
FIVE UNIT PLANNED DEVELOPMENT AT 260 SPRUCE STREET, APPLICANT IS
RICHARD ARMSTRONG
Current Planner Spierling said this project was reviewed by the Planning Commission on
September 6, 1994 and, using the overhead projector, he pointed out the differences between
the preapplication proposal and the proposal being presented tonight. Mr. Spierling passed color
boards to the Commissioners and discussed floor plans, lot sizes, set backs, parking, and so
forth; and stated one of the issues to be considered was undergrounding of utilities. He
mentioned a letter received by the Planning Department from Diana Duquesne of 286 Spruce
Street expressing concerns regarding this project. Current Planner Spierling ended by stating
both the AAC and SAC recommended approval of both resolutions.
Chairperson Keen opened the public hearing.
Mark Gammon of RMO Architects, representing the applicant, stated he would be glad to
answer any questions.
Mary Lee Iverson of 819 Park Way and owner of a condominium unit at Ash and Spruce, said
the proposed project would back up to their property. Her concerns were parking, which she
stated were now atrocious. Ms. Iverson pointed out that the houses proposed would be too close
to their property and felt the planned development was too dense. She suggested turning the
project around with the driveway along the condominiums.
Dale Armstrong, one of the applicants, explained why he felt they were providing adequate
parking on the property. He requested that underground utilities not be required. Mr.
Armstrong stated they originally planned to have the driveway on the southerly portion of the
property, but someone in one of the departments of the City did not want them tampering with
Arroyo Grande Planning Commission
June 20, 1995
Page 4
the oak tree, which caused them to reverse the plan. He said they also felt the driveway being
away front he condominiums would be quieter for them.
With no further comments from the audience, Chairperson Keen closed the public hearing.
The Commissioners were concerned about back -up space not being 24 feet and that in order to
comply with the 24 feet, 2 feet of the 3 feet of landscaping would need to be eliminated.
Commissioner Deviny was concerned with the back -up space provided, the density of the
project, and rear yard setbacks.
Commissioner Beck felt it was tight on space. She stated she was not concerned with common
open space because of the nearby park and did not feel utility undergrounding should be
required. Commissioner Beck ended by saying she would rather see four houses on this
property.
Commissioner Tappan was concerned about the rear yard setbacks and the back -up space. He
said he was not that concerned with having the utilities outside the project undergrounded.
Commissioner Tappan said it looked as though the drainage was going to the back corner of the
property. Mr. Armstrong responded that it was at this time and they would be doing some
grading to take care of that situation. Commissioner Tappan ended his comments by saying he
preferred to see four units on this property.
Discussion was held by the Commissioners regarding where the driveway should be located.
Commissioner Tappan asked Ms. Iverson if she would prefer the driveway near her
condominium or an almost zero lot line. Ms. Iverson responded the driveway would be the
better choice, and mentioned the Fire Department might need to use the driveway to reach the
condominiums.
Commissioner Carr said he agreed with the other Commissioners that if the driveway could not
be designed without removing the oak tree, removal of the tree should be permitted.
Commissioner Deviny asked the applicant if he could flip the project and Mr. Armstrong
responded that it would take a lot of work and he could not answer at this time.
Chairperson Keen said he was concerned about the rear yard set -back and preferred turning the
project around. He recalled that someone spoke at the preapplication review stating the
driveway on the south side would be too noisy. Chairperson Keen said that since they would
be backing out of the drive and can begin to turn, he felt the 22 feet would be sufficient. He
agreed the utilities on the property would have to be undergrounded, but not the ones across the
front
Planning Director Liberto - Blanck presented the options regarding this item. The Planning
Commissioners asked severed questions regarding their options in their attempt to assist the
applicant.
Tony Orefice, Project Architect, using the overhead projector, presented some ideas of how the
project could be adjusted to meet the concerns of the Commissioners.
The Planning Commission suggested the applicant:
• meet with the Fire Chief and determine whether a narrower driveway is
acceptable.
• move the units as far forward as possible to increase the rear set -back to a
minimum of 7 feet while still maintaining what is necessary in the front;
• see if they might be able to reverse the project, considering removal of the oak
tree; and
• retain a landscaped strip down the side of the property line.
The Planning Commission directed Staff:
Arroyo Grande Planning Commission Page 5
June 20, 1995
• to provide necessary resolutions for denial, if such action is necessary.
On a motion by Commissioner Carr seconded by Commissioner Beck, and unanimously carried,
this item was continued to a special meeting at 6:30 P.M. on Wednesday, July 5, 1995, and the
applicant directed to return with a design with a minimum of a 7 foot rear setback, and staff
include in the Planning Commission's packet the necessary resolutions for denial for both
options.
Planning Director Liberto - Blanck requested the applicant sign a continue form stating he
understood and agreed to continue this item to July 5, 1995. She advised him that he could ask
for another continuance on that date if he desired.
NON - PUBLIC HEARING - ROBERT BARRON (SELF -SERVE CAR WASH) ANNUAL
REVIEW OF CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT CASE NO. 93 -508, 1203 GRAND AVENUE,
APPLICANT IS ROBERT BARRON
Current Planner Spierling stated they had not received any negative reports on this business.
No action was taken by the Planning Commission.
NON - PUBLIC HEARING - ANNUAL REVIEW OF CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT CASE
NO. 93 -507, 201 BRISCO ROAD, APPLICANT IS FIVE CITIES AMBULANCE
Current Planner Spierling presented this item to the Commission, stating that an annual review
is required to insure that bio- hazard waste is being properly disposed of and for any additional
public concerns. Mr. Spierling stated the Planning Staff had not received any complaints
regarding the operation of the ambulance service. He said at the SAC meeting this morning the
Fire Chief expressed concern about the on- street parking possibly blocking vision of ambulance
drivers exiting the site or people nearing the site being surprised by an ambulance exiting. Mr.
Spierling said the Public Works Department has been monitoring the site and did not observe
any problems; however, they will be a scheduling a Traffic Commission meeting to review
possibly red curbing some of the area on either side of the project driveway in July.
Paul McKenzie, owner of the Five Cities Ambulance, said he would be speaking with the owner
of the Brisco Lumber property to get permission to have the tree that is on their property
trimmed. Mr. McKenzie said the ambulance drivers had no problem with vision, but in the past
year the tree has grown a lot and the trimming of it would help drivers approaching their
driveway area.
Commissioner Beck said she was at the site today and the status was as Mr. McKenzie stated.
No action was taken by the Planning Commission.
NON - PUBLIC HEARING - PRE - APPLICATION REVIEW FOR A FAST FOOD
RESTAURANT AND LOT LINE ADJUSTMENT, 1587 EL CAMINO REAL, APPLICANT
IS RICHARD INVESTMENT CO. (KENNY ROGERS ROASTERS)
Commissioner Tappan stepped down from the dais due to a possible conflict of interest.
Current Planner Spierling stated the proposed project consisted of a lot line adjustment and
construction of a 3,500 square foot restaurant with drive -thru window and associated facilities,
and noted the proposed project was depicted on a posted site plan. He gave the Commissioners
a handout of a colored photo showing a previously constructed Kenny Rogers Roasters
restaurant. Mr. Spierling said the AAC reviewed this item and emphasized the importance of
having the Planning Commission review this project before a formal application was submitted.
He stated the SAC reviewed this item earlier today and provided a variety of comments on
technical issues; one of the main items being preparation of a traffic study to address a variety
of traffic - related issues, such as ingress /egress, queuing requirements for the drive -thru, and fee
calculations for both traffic signalization and traffic mitigation fees.
Commissioner Carr asked if the property was currently a single parcel with the day care center.
Current Planner Spierling answered that actually it was a large number of parcels developed
through various right -of -way dedications and abandonments over the years.
Arroyo Grande Planning Commission Page 6
June 20, 1995
Dennis Nuzum, representing the applicant, began by stating they were in error in submitting
the term fast food restaurant at the onset of their application and it was in reality a sit -down type
of restaurant. He handed photos to the Commissioners and stated the picture they received
during the presentation from Current Planner Spierling was from their corporate office in
Florida, which was a prototype of what they have in Florida. Mr. Nuzum said that design
would not work in California. He said they reviewed the comments of the AAC, the AM /PM
Town and Country (Western) theme and they were acceptable to the applicant. He stated the
interior of the restaurant needed to be conformed to the corporate plans the kitchen, food
preparation, dining area, and so forth, but the exterior could be done in whatever the City
required.
Mr. Nuzum passed a sample menu to the Commissioners, saying it reflected a menu not typical
of a fast food operation. Chairperson Keen queried Mr. Nuzum that if it was not a fast food
restaurant, what was the purpose of the drive -thru. Mr. Nuzum responded it has been
demonstrated in the restaurant business that in this type of location additional sales can be
generated with a drive -thru, which would offset development costs and City fees, and help them
remain competitive. He stated this would be their first drive -thru in California. Mr. Nuzum
said they were open only for lunch and dinner, accepting both FAX and phone orders, and the
hours were usually from about 11:00 A.M. to 10:00 P.M.
Chairperson Keen asked if their goal was to attract people from the freeway to which Mr.
Nuzum responded it was not, and the restaurant was a community- oriented group, family -owned
operation.
Chairperson Keen asked Mr. Nuzum if he was aware of the traffic studies, fees, water,
drainage, and so forth. Mr. Nuzum said he had a concern with the traffic mitigation and
signalization fees. Mr. Nuzum said that the figures given to him this morning amounted to about
50% of the cost of construction of the building. He said he would like to discuss it further. He
said their estimated number of customers per day was 600 to 700 and based on 2 customers per
car, there should be about 350 vehicle trips per day. Even considering peak hours, he wondered
what these figures were based upon. Mr. Nuzum said that $100,000 is staggering and then in
addition to this they were informed of a signalization fee that could run as much as the traffic
mitigation fee. He said the Fire Chief Latipow and Current Planner Spierling recommended he
take his site plans and other items to Jeanne in the Building Department earlier today and that
she and Larry advised him the signalization fee, building permit fee, and so forth was a ballpark
figure of $30,000, which he stated, they could live with, but $100,000 to $200,000 was not
realistic.
Chairperson Keen asked if he really felt this site was a good location for a restaurant and Mr.
Nuzum responded they have done traffic studies, demographic studies, and competitive analysis
and they feel it is an excellent location. Chairperson Keen asked what he thought if the Planning
Commission limited turns in and out of Oak Park Boulevard. Mr. Nuzum said they discussed
that with John Wallace at the site a few weeks ago. Chairperson Keen said coming north on
Oak Park Boulevard, he would like to see a right turn only, and an outbound only right hand
turn; i.e. no left hand turns in and no left hand turns out. Mr. Nuzum said that made sense to
him.
Mr. Nuzum said he met with John Wallace and Avelino Lampitoc on the site and they discussed
curbs, gutters, and sidewalks. He said he agreed with El Camino Real and Oak Park Boulevard
for full curbs, gutters, and sidewalks, but on Chilton Street there were no curbs, gutters, or
sidewalks, and did not feel they should be required to install them. Mr. Nuzum said there was
a major grade problem and a retaining wall might have to be constructed to support these items.
This, he stated, was another economic concern. Chairperson Keen said he was sure John
Wallace would work that out with them.
Planning Director Liberto - Blanck said the traffic impact fee was based worse case scenario. She
stated, as mentioned at the SAC meeting earlier today, there was undoubtedly a lot of pass -by
traffic which would reduce average daily traffic, and there might be some improvements the
applicant will make that they can get credit for, which should both reduce the traffic impact fee.
Ms. Liberto - Blanck said the applicant can also go to the City Council and ask for a reduction.
Commissioner Carr asked Planning Director Liberto - Blanck about the signalization fee as that
Arroyo Grande Planning Commission Page 7
June 20, 1995
intersection is already signalized. Ms. Liberto - Blanck responded that the purpose of the fee is
for City -wide use, but again there are credits that can be considered and this also can be
appealed to the City Council at the same time the traffic impact fees are appealed.
Chairperson Keen asked the Commissioners if they liked the project.
Commissioner Deviny said he felt it was as good as Cody's. The right turn lane coming off the
freeway was a concern, and the entrance off Oak Park Boulevard might be an issue.
Commissioner Deviny stated the possibility that cars would need to come in from El Camino
Real and out only onto Oak Park Boulevard in order to keep that right lane open. Commissioner
Deviny asked about signs, stating he did not note any tall pole signs. Mr. Nuzum said a
monument sign would be the only sign and there would be no high signs. Commissioner Deviny
inquired if the applicant would change the architectural style shown in the picture of a restaurant
in Florida. Mr. Nuzum responded in the affirmative.
Commissioner Beck said she did not feel the site was a good one for any restaurant and would
prefer an office building on this site. She said she counted 29 parking spaces, and with the
drive -thru did not see how any more could be added. Mr Nuzum responded the City's
requirements were 22 parking spaces.
Commissioner Carr said he felt a lot better about the project since the presentation and especially
after he had first seen the photo of the restaurant in Florida. He said he was concerned about
this use on this particular site, and it would be more appropriate if there was not a drive -thru.
Another concern, he stated, was sharing the driveway off El Camino Real with the adjacent
uses. Commissioner Carr said he did not see any need for the improvements on Chilton Street.
He liked not using any signs other than a monument sign. Commissioner Carr asked if they
used special emission controls on the restaurants. Mr. Nuzum said they did and it was a self -
contained emission control that is part of a built -in rotisserie oven, which is UL approved, and
California State A3 fire rated. Commissioner Carr asked if smoke could be seen coming out
of the stack of any of the restaurants. Mr. Nuzum answered no, that there was no apparent
emission.
Commissioner Carr asked if 3,500 square feet was the minimum size required and Mr. Nuzum
responded in the affirmative. Commissioner Carr said traffic was a concern and he was glad
to hear the applicant was willing to limit access. Commissioner Carr said he wasn't sure the
"playing field" would be that unlevel without a drive -thru as the Taco Bell restaurant in Grover
Beach did not have one and did a large take -out business, as well as one of the local pizza
establishments. Commissioner Carr said he felt it would be a much better project without the
drive -thru.
Chairperson Keen said he was very concerned earlier, but had a much better feeling about the
project now. He said the traffic was a concern on that corner and the appearance of that corner
was important as it was one of the gateways to our City. Chairperson Keen stated he also had
a concern whether this was a good project for that site. Mr. Nuzum said there would definitely
be pride of ownership. Chairperson Keen said he did not feel curbs, gutters, and sidewalks were
necessary on Chilton Street. He stated landscaping should be provided which would soften the
drive -thru area from the street. Mr. Nuzum agreed.
Commissioner Deviny asked the applicant if he was willing to forego the drive -thru. Mr.
Nuzum said he preferred to keep it in.
Commissioner Tappan returned to the dais.
PLANNING COMMISSION /PLANNING DIRECTOR ITEMS AND COMMENTS
Planning Director Liberto - Blanck advised the Commissioners that a letter was sent to several
cities requesting regulations pertaining to the use of neon. She stated that staff was
overwhelmed at the telephone and letter response received. She stated that the range thusfar was
from not permitting neon at all to permitting it in any area except a historic district to looking
at it on a case by case basis.
WRITTEN COMMUNICATIONS
1
1
1
Arroyo Grande Planning Commission Page 8
June 20, 1995
Agenda Item No. II.B. - Letter from Diana Duquesne
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the Commission, on a motion by Commissioner Deviny,
seconded by Commissioner Tappan, and unanimously carried, the meeting was adjourned at
10:50 P.M. to a special meeting at 6:30 P.M. on July 5, 1995.
ATTEST:
cs..m c
Nancy Brow Commission Clerk
Jo Keen, Ch ' erson