PC Minutes 1993-03-024 2'2-
ARROYO GRANDE PLANNING COMMISSION
MARCH 2, 1993
The Arroyo Grande Planning Commission met in regular session with the Arroyo Grande Traffic
Commission with Chairman Soto presiding for the Planning Commission and Richard Franks
presiding for the Traffic Commission. Present are Planning Commissioners Carr, Moore,
Tappan, and Reilly and Traffic Commissioners Keen, Pilkington, Borda, Silva and McAustin.
Planning Director Doreen Liberto -Blanck and Paul Crawford of Crawford, Multari & Starr are
in attendance.
Chairman Soto read the Planning Commission Proclamation honoring Judy Skousen.
Commissioner Carr arrived at 7:05 P.M.
ORAL COMMUNICATIONS - None
PUBLIC HEARING ITEMS - None
NON - PUBLIC HEARING ITEM ARCO AM / /PM FACILITY (Lot Line Adjustment Case
No. 92 -506, Conditional Use Permit Case No. 92 -504, Variance No. 92 -170, Sign Program
No. 92 -107) 100 Barnett Street - Discuss and provide direction regarding the ARCO Traffic
Study, and related traffic issues.
Planning Director Liberto- Blanck pointed out that this was a joint meeting of the Planning
Commission and the Traffic Commission. She introduced Paul Crawford of Crawford, Multari,
and Starr to give an overview of the items to be considered.
Paul Crawford, using the overhead, discussed the proposed layout. He noted that there were
three major traffic issues to be considered; whether there should be a driveway on Grand
Avenue; the traffic impact on the Barnett Street and Grand Avenue intersection; and the
cumulative impacts. Mr. Crawford apprised them of the additional issue that was raised after
the staff report was prepared, of the concern expressed by the Public Works Director regarding
the traffic on Grand.
Chairman Soto invited the commissioners to present any questions to Mr. Crawford.
Commissioner Carr asked if there was any consideration given to striping a left -hand turn lane
onto Grand Avenue to help alleviate that flow of service. Mr. Crawford responded that he did
not believe the right turn movement was the problem, but that the left turn was the possible
problem.
Commissioner Carr then asked if there was a possibility of having a queuing lane from the
entrance and exit, though he was not sure if there was enough width; i.e. too close to the
freeway off -ramp. Mr. Crawford stated that the conclusion of the study was that it was not
impossible, but the probability was very low. Planning Director Liberto - Blanck stated that one
reason for the reverse project design, moving the pumps inland on the parcel was in order to get
more vehicles on the parcel and off the road.
Commissioner Carr inquired if the commissioners would be hearing from the applicant.
Chairman Franks agreed this would be advantageous. Although this would be continued for a
public hearing, the commissioners decided they would like to hear from the applicant at this
time. Commissioner Soto invited the applicant to speak.
Dan Lloyd of Engineering Development Associates, stated he was assisting ARCO Products in
their endeavor to locate a new facility at the Barnett /Grand location. He said what had not been
defined for him was how far, how many cars may be blocking, what duration of time would they
be blocking, etc. He felt that any business on Grand Avenue would pose this potential problem
and pointed out the uniqueness of the driveway they were proposing, thereby alleviating much
of the potential problem that might have occurred. Commissioner Carr asked questions
regarding the necessary sloping of the proposed driveways. When Chairman Soto asked about
the grading, Mr. Lloyd stated their intention to elevate the whole site, but that there would be
a gentle slope toward the street.
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March 2, 1993
Mr. Lloyd stated he was concerned about the comment on page 1 of the staff report, the third
sentence under A, namely, "The relatively short distance between the proposed driveway on
Grand and the Highway 101 offramp intersection makes this concern even more important." He
continued by saying he felt the cluster of signals and the need for reduced speed in that area
gave motorists time to note any potential backup and take appropriate auction. He said while
the chance of a backup was slim, he felt that being close to an intersection (being about 120 feet
from the offramp to the proposed driveway) gives opportunity to anticipate a problem. He said
they could also bind the throat of the inbound lane which might be beneficial.
Mr. Lloyd then spoke regarding the left -hand turn off Barnett onto Grand Avenue, in that they
would be willing to put signage on their site on the Barnett exit driveway, saying, "Go right to
get to Southbound 101 ". He further stated there would be a raised median constructed in Grand
Avenue opposite their driveway to prevent people going leftbound out of that driveway that is
on Grand Avenue. Again, they would have signage on their property to say, "Right turn only"
to get onto Grand, so they do not necessarily have to get onto Barnett and make another right
turn onto Grand.
Mr. Lloyd, referring to page 3 of the staff report, stated that prohibition of a driveway on Grand
would be a "deal breaker ". They would agree with condition 1 with no monitoring, as that
would be a hammer that would probably not be accepted. With respect to the Barnett left turn,
he stated they agreed with Option 2 of the staff report, where that interpretation would be made
acceptable. However, he did feel signage should also be put on site. With respect to other
traffic issues he said they are doing a median and they will be offering widening of the right -of-
way though it is in anticipation of future use. They would like to see the site plan proceed as
it is.
Gary Simning of ARCO Products said he did not have anything to add to Dan Lloyd's
comments, other than the driveway on Grand Avenue for them is a must and that monitoring it
later with the possibility of closing that driveway to them was like closing it now. He stated he
would not proceed with this project if a driveway along Grand Avenue is not permitted.
Chairman Soto commented that he noticed in at least one ARCO facility that he has seen, the
traffic flow through the station is a one way direction and asked Mr. Simning if he considered
that possibility for this site. Mr. Simning stated he would not object to something like that and
would be willing to discuss that with staff.
Commissioner Tappan asked Planning Director Liberto - Blanck about the building location,
perhaps moving it to the other corner of the site.
Paul Crawford presented the issues for the commissioners to consider. The first issue was the
driveway on Grand Avenue. He stated the possible options; i.e. a stacking lane between the
driveway and freeway offramp, but because of the distance allow for an effective stacking lane,
this was impractical. The second would involve moving the driveway farther from the freeway
offramp and closer to Barnett, which would involve a complete redesign of the site and as
discussed this is not an appropriate arrangement for driveways relative to intersections and; also
the redesign may not be consistent with the General Plan Policy. A third option would be to
prohibit the driveway on Grand altogether, which was initially preferred by the Public Works
Director, but this option would effectively eliminate the project. The fourth, which the traffic
engineer is recommending is that the project be built with the driveway as proposed, which
would also include a median divider on Grand Avenue to prevent any left -hand turn movements,
and to monitor the site for a period of time, i.e. one to two years and if back -ups occurred on
a regular basis, then the driveway could be required to be closed.
He reiterated that these were the basically the four alternatives to be considered, the
recommendation based on a low probability problems resulting from backups is that the fourth
option be the one selected. However, direction from the commissioners was desired.
Chairman Soto stated he understood a right -hand queuing lane might not be too feasible, but
wondered if moving the curb 10 feet to the north would not produce an offset in the road.
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March 2, 1993
Commissioner Pilkington interjected that more and more there are bike lanes and right turn lanes
being shared and did not feel there was a problem. He further stated that there were two 12 -foot
lanes, providing enough room a right turn lane going into this facility. Commissioner Carr
questioned Commissioner Pilkington if he meant after Grand Avenue was widened, this footage
would be as stated. However, Commissioner Pilkington responded that it was about that footage
now. Commissioner Keen addressed Chairman Soto in that he felt the dedicated 10 feet is
necessary because Grand from Halcyon to the bridge gradually narrows and eventually it is
going to have to be widened to match the Halcyon intersection, stating there was even room now
after the median there for a left -turn lane. However, he continued, when you get to the bridge
it narrows down where you do not have that capability. He stated that even though there is not
a requirement for widening the street, they do need that for future consideration. Commissioner
Soto felt perhaps it would be better to consider putting that queuing lane in at this time.
It was suggested this be discussed with the Public Works Director.
Chairman Franks stated that in the past the Grand Avenue Corridor Study did address widening
Grand Avenue in that vicinity; however, at the time of the study the curbs and gutters past the
proposed ARCO area and McDonald's were already in; so that the study suggested that the
widening take place on the southerly side of Grand Avenue. This met with some reluctance by
the property owners. Another of the far - reaching plans was an extension of Valley Road across
the farmland, which would join at Barnett. All of these factors ended in that the easiest way to
widen Grand Avenue in that area would be on the southerly side, rather than on the proposed
ARCO's site. This does not alleviate the consideration of the 10 -feet dedication on ARCO's
part, however. He further stated we ought to have that anyway, but that to widen it 10 feet
across the proposed ARCO's parcel would make a very awkward situation at Barnett.
Chairman Soto asked if there were any other comments regarding widening of that road area to
assist staff. Commissioner Tappan pointed out that on page 23 of the traffic study, beginning
with "To Improve the level of service..." it stated widening Grand Avenue to six lanes.
Commissioner Carr commented that anticipating what may happen in the future and requiring
widening now is something we should not be dealing with at this time, but rather we should be
satisfied with the dedication, as we don't really know what's going to happen. He related
requiring the Ford agency on Fair Oaks to widen and they spent the money to do it, and there
it sat, not really functioning for anything. Commissioner Carr further stated if we do allow the
right -turn lane from Grand into the project, that we might look at requiring some monitoring but
not such a harsh solution if we, in fact, find a problem. Perhaps something alone the line of
additional mitigation could be considered, rather than closing the access.
Chairman Franks asked for the distance from the freeway offramp to the driveway. Mr. Lloyd
responded that the distance from the ARCO driveway to the curbline of Barnett is 260 feet.
Chairman Franks wondered of the driveway could be moved westerly toward Barnett to pick up
a little more feed distance from off the freeway into the ARCO driveway. Mr. Simning stated
you could do that, but it would increase the potential of back -up accidents; then suggested
making a queuing lane between the north end of the driveway and the freeway. This was further
discussed by the commissioners.
It was agreed by the commissioners that the Grand Avenue entrance was necessary. Chairman
Franks restated that the entrance off Grand Avenue into the site should be widened.
The possibility of one -way flow of traffic at the island was discussed. Mr. Crawford suggested
that rather than close the Grand Avenue entrance if there were problems, that they could discuss
mitigation measures to solve the problem at that time. Planning Director Liberto -Blanck stated
that this has been done before with good results. Chairman Soto asked Mr. Simning if that was
agreeable and he responded in the affirmative.
Chairman Soto brought up the Barnett Street concern, stating the applicant's proposal to
encourage traffic to go north was a good one, rather than making a left across Grand Avenue,
which would eliminate part of the problem. Commissioner Borda stated that people that travel
that area frequently go onto the freeway at Halcyon and get off at the off ramp to get onto Grand
Avenue because that left turn off Barnett is so bad. He felt something had to 'be done so that
people don't have to get on the freeway just to get onto Grand Avenue. He further stated that
putting a signal that close was not a legitimate argument, and he felt something had to be done
about that left turn before they increase traffic on that street.
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March 2, 1993
Chairman Soto addressed Planning Director Liberto - Blanck for the need to have the "big
picture" on how that whole corridor is going to look like when improvements are done at Branch
Street, Traffic Way, etc.
Commissioner Silva agreed that this Barnett/Grand problem needed to be resolved. Chairman
Soto brought up the fact that there is confusion in that area now of where do you stop and when
is it all right to go again in this area. Mr. Simning said he had no objection to a traffic signal
at the Barnett/Grand location, actually preferring one there, but would not bear the total cost.
Chairman Franks stated a traffic signal should be there but would have to be properly synced
with the others to keep the traffic flow. There was further discussion stating pros and cons.
However, the majority seemed to agree a signal light would be appropriate there; however, the
cost was another factor that needed consideration. Commissioner Keen spoke about tying all
of the signals being together and that some of the provisions are already there to do that.
Chairman Soto said that the previously approved project was for the entire site and now only
a portion of the site is prepared for development. He asked what the plan for the remainder
was. Dan Lloyd responded there was no plan at this time.
Commissioner Carr asked about the striped area and was told it was an RV parking space.
Planning Director Liberto -Blanck stated on commercial developments the Planning Commission
in the past requested parking spaces for RVs. Commissioner Carr said the reason he asked the
question was because he felt the trash enclosure was not in the best site right along the sidewalk
and next to the driveway, and wondered if perhaps it could be moved to where that striped area
was to hide it somewhat. He asked staff to review this.
Chairman Soto summarized the issues as looking into a queuing lane in the proposed 10 -foot
right -of -way; widen the righthand entrance on Grand Avenue; straighten out the median on
Grand Avenue and provide for a walk -thru for pedestrian traffic; monitor the driveway as a
condition of the Conditional Use Permit; consider a signal on Barnett and Grand; place signage
at the Barnett driveway directing traffic to 101, and reviewing the feasibility of one -way traffic
at least at peak times on site. Commissioner Keen commented that the existing 35 foot driveway
is sufficient. Commissioner Tappan questioned the size of the building, in that it was very large
for that location. Planning Director Liberto - Blanck responded that AAC had reviewed it and
recommended some modification.
Commissioner Carr pointed out that on Page 13 of the Draft prepared by the Pacific Traffic and
Transportation Engineers on the righthand turn number off of Grand onto Barnett, the number
55 seems to be incorrect. He wondered if this is a typographical error. Mr. Crawford agreed
to look into it.
Chairman Soto pointed out on page 15 he was not sure what the first sentence of the last
paragraph meant. Planning Director Libertb - Blanck answered that it should read, "were being
determined".
Chairman Soto asked if anyone in the audience would like to make comments regarding the
project.
Katcho Achadjian of 222 Grand Avenue, Arroyo Grande, stated he owned property next to
McDonald's. He felt that the building being proposed should be attractive as it is a reflection
on the members of the community. He stated that Grover Beach is not allowing a gas station
at 4th and Grand as they consider than an entryway into their community. He also felt a signal
light was necessary at Barnett and Grand or we would have an Oak Park nightmare repeated.
He also stated we would need to know where the money would be coming from. Regarding the
ARCO sign proposed, he stated that whatever size you determine, you should give the same
option to other stations along the freeway corridors. He said he had other points, but would
wait for the public hearing. He added that the commissioners should consider observing the
stacking situation at other stations, as he anticipates problems on this kind of a proposed project
of this size. He did not feel their signage solution was not workable in practical use. He also
commented on the importance of syncing the traffic lights.
At this point Planning Director Liberto - Blanck encouraged the audience to call or submit letters
to the Planning Department regarding any questions or comments they had so staff could respond
to them.
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March 2, 1993
Cevin Miller of 404 Toyon Place, Arroyo Grande spoke briefly of his concern of the people who
are traveling East on Grand. He felt there should be an equal amount of flow for those who
would take a left into the proposed facility. Chairman Soto advised him that the only eastbound
way into the site would be via Barnett; westbound via Grand. He said he has been associated
with ARCO projects and the generated traffic in peak periods in this kind of area with the many
tourists coming into town not being familiar with area, where they are going, where to turn --
that was his major concern. He felt the signs directing them would not work.
Chairman Soto also encouraged the audience to input their questions and comments, and then
invited Planning Director Liberto -Blanck and /or Paul Crawford to comment. Mr. Crawford said
he felt that the commissioners had worked through the issues and gave the direction that they
had hoped for and that all the comments would be considered.
BACKBONE TRAFFIC MITIGATION FEE PROGRAM - DISCUSS AND MAKE
RECOMMENDATIONS REGARDING REVISIONS TO THE CITY'S BACKBONE
TRAFFIC MITIGATION FEE PROGRAM
Planning Director Liberto - Blanck addressed the members of the Commissions reminding them
that in 1989 the City Council adopted a proposed Traffic Mitigation Fee Program. She pointed
out the map on the wall identifying the improvements needed on the Backbone System. She
stated that there needs to be an update and that Crawford, Multari and Starr are reviewing it at
this time. She then asked Mr. Crawford to comment.
Mr. Crawford said they were not prepared to discuss any details at this time, but that they were
working with staff in reviewing the South County Traffic Study to identify the full range of
transportation projects that will be necessary for the build -out of the General Plan. They plan
to work with Public Works Department to estimate the cost of those projects, and the final step
would be to allocate those costs between new development and existing residents. State law
requires that development be charged only for the cost of mitigating impacts that are caused by
the new development and not to improve or mitigate existing conditions in the community that
were predevelopment. He further stated that the fees could be based on several factors; number
of trip ends; proposed land uses; a combination of residents generated by residential development
and commercial /industrial development; or the number of dwelling units in residential or the
square footage in non - residential projects with certain dollar amounts per square foot or per
dwelling unit.
During comments regarding this item Chairman Soto said they needed an update from the Public
Works Director to find out where we were regarding fees, where some of the projects stand, etc.
Commissioner Carr agreed a report of the fees, status, etc. from the Public Works Director was
needed. Planning Director Liberto -Blanck was directed to prepare a memo requesting an update
from the Public Works Director.
Commissioner Carr also requested a copy of the Backbone Mitigation Measures on the next
agenda.
PLANNING DIRECTOR /PLANNING COMMISSION ITEMS AND COMMENTS
Planning Director Liberto- Blanck reminded the commissioners of the TDC conference on March
20, 1993.
Planning Director Liberto - Blanck brought the commissioners attention to the Long Range
Planning vacancies. Commissioner Tappan volunteered to fill the vacancy on Item 2, Economic
Development and Commissioner Reilly filled the vacancy on Recreation. Chairman Soto
requested that we continue this item at the next meeting to give those absent tonight an
opportunity to fill other slots.
When Planning Director Liberto -Blanck was asked for an update about the APA meeting last
month, she advised the commissioners that she did attend and it was a very informative meeting.
She further stated they would be having another meeting, probably a half -day in May at Cal
Poly, designed for planners and planning commissioners, and would let them know.
WRITTEN COMMUNICATIONS - None
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Arroyo Grande Planning Commission
March 2, 1993
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the Commissions, on a motion from the Traffic
Commission by Commissioner McAustin, seconded by Commissioner Keen, and unanimously
carried, and on a motion from the Planning Commission by Commissioner Moore, seconded by
Commissioner Carr, the meeting was adjourned at 8:55 P.M.
ATTEST
Nancy Brow
Commission Clerk
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