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Minutes 1977-06-08~ 34~ CITY COUNCIL JUNE 8, 1977 ARROYO GRANDE, CALIFORNIA 7:30 P.M. The City Council met in regular adjourned meeting in the Cafeteria of the ©cean View School on Linda`Drive in Arroyo Grande,-with Mayor Pro Tem Millis presiding. Council Members Spierling, Schlegel and Gallagher are present along with City Administrator Butch and the City Clerk. .Mayor de Leon is absent. Mayor Pro Tem Millis led the Pledge of Allegiance to our Flag. TOWN MEETING FOR PUBLIC INPUT RE. FUTURE DIRECTION OF THE CITY Mayor Pro Tem Millis made opening remarks, stating the purpose of the meeting, whereafter he declared the Towrre~!meeting open -for public comments. The following persons were present and commented, on various matters, as summarized below. JOE MOORE, 200 Nelson, stated he favors open space, but doesn't think the farmers should pay for it. He suggested having a bond -issue to pay the farmer the difference between the price of 'selling the land for development and its use for farming. The farmers could sign an agreement that they would keep farming the land. He also felt the problem of sky rocketing property taxes needs to be addressed. Regarding the gas shortage, he stated that thought needs to be given about a housing pattern now that will be conducive of transit. BOB McDONALD, 1165 Fair Oaks Avenue, stated taxes should be cut so the farmers wouldn't have to be taxed on the land. He further felt that with high density you get high crime, fire hazards, etc. He would like to see A.G. stay rural with single family residences and large lots. ELIZABETH JACKSON, 208 Fair View, stated that grave mistakes have been made in the past with zoning. She is concerned about development and "mixes" of zoning in old established residential areas. ART GRIEB, Trustee for farmland in the City, discussed various types of soil in relation to economical farming on them. JOHN KUDEN, San Luis Obispo County .resident, stated he would like to see better planning regarding the farmland to protect the farm ground. He distributed copies of his prepared comments, which Mayor Pro Tem Millis then read in full. The statement pointed out that the recent effort to preserve agricultural land .in the City was because those people didn't want to see happen here what has happened in other metropolitan areas of the State, but he felt these same people-cause the problem in the first place by demanding housing, which in turn consumes land. He felt that as long as there is a demand for housing, the building will continue and the farmers will produce crops on their land until local conditions demand another commodity (housing) which makes it more economically feasible to convert from agricultural production to housing. He recommended the following as "Some primary goals ~ precepts in the formulation of new policies... 1) Protect productive agricultural land from pressures to convert to other land uses. 2) Protect the livelihood of the farmer and his family.. 3) Provide adequate land areas conducive to development of housing in housing in quantities adequate to meet consumer demand; recognize that the demand for housing will continue to exist, and strive to meet that demand with the least impact to the environment and to each of the .agents in the housing system. 4) Recognize that housing is as necessary as food and open space. Each is an important basic need. If additional housing must be provided and the production of food must increase. The problem is how to achieve both ends with the fewest conflicts and costs, and greatest benefits to all." ANDY JOHNSON, 1279 Poplar, felt little concern is being given to existing land use, stating it is wrong to encourage industrial or commercial uses in areas of residences and churches. He would like to see larger lots. PAT VANDERVEER, 756 Myrtle Street, asked whether any facts have. been given on what our resources are and what we can handle before we talk about development. --349 CITY COUNCIL JUNE 8, 1977 ARROYO GRANDE, CALIFORNIA PAGE 2 FRED STEELE, 1598 Hillcrest, felt every effort should be made, and pressure put on, to annex the county area between the City limits and E1 Camino Real (Brisco/Chilton area). TOM RUNELS, 586 Valley Road, felt it is time to let Councilman Spierling's suggested Ag Committee to "let loose" and getinput from farmers. PRISCILLA PORTER, 554 Crown Street,. stated she is concerned about the size of the apartments on Crown Hill and asked if there are plans for more, whether they will also be as large. She asked whether a committee could be formed of citizens to review designs proposed for the hill. NANCY CONROW, 338 Walnut., stated she feels the whole zoning map is wrong. She felt Planning and Agriculture should be discussed together at the same time. AL STILLWELL, 734 Myrtle, stated his planning to put a bridge across the creek at money would be better spent to put a bridge needed out there badly. JOAN JENSEN, 988 Magnolia, wanted to picked, stating her feeling it would be well walks of life in the area. understanding that the City is Stanley Avenue. He felt the across Coach Road, as one is know how the Ag Committee will be balanced with people from different HELEN WILSON, Newport Avenue, wants to see A.G. stay "R-1" and not have more apartments. RAY BAIR, 1149 Fair Oaks Avenue, stated he has. been here for 30 years and now there are nothing but apartments around him. He doesn't want apart- ments, only single residences from here on out. He felt that high density incites crime. He further stated that the area does not have industry or the jobs to support the people the apartments will bring. He wants to see the community stay clean and free of smog. He felt growth should be limited to the water supply. He stressed again to keep. the community in single family residences. He felt the more people you bring in, the more welfare you bring in. ALICE CARAS, Sierra Drive, stated her agreement with Mr. Bair. She wants A.G. to stay in a rural, small town atmosphere. She doesn't want ''wild cat" development with people who come in to buy up property for development only for. profit. She stated it takes 40 years before a unit pays its way for services through taxes. PAUL HADDOX, 587 Valley Road, stated his agreement with Mr. Bair and he also doesn't want any more annexations until the inside of the City is built up. ART GRIEB, commented on the cost of housing and how a relative with children couldn't even afford to live in the City, and most apartments won't allow children. TOM McDONALD, stated that many apartments in the City are empty and the quality of people living in them is going down. He wants the Planning~;Commission to find out who is supporting them (apartment dwellers), etc. He wishes the City would consider where the income is coming from to support these types of development (apartments). ALICE CARAS, stated she doesn't feel the price of land is related to supply and demand, but just speculation. ELLA HONEYCUTT, 560 Oak Hill Road, suggested everyone read the "New West", which is good reading for anyone who wants to know what's going on as far as land speculation. JOE MOORE, stated his annoyance with the law which states the Land Use Element must be in conformance with the Zoning, as this doesn't allow for planning ahead.. He felt a change should be sought through the League of Calif- ornia Cities, or another plan devised which is not bound by laws, by which proposed planning for the future can be accomplished. 350 CITY COUNCIL JUNE $, 1977 ARROYO GRANDE, CALIFORNIA PAGE 3 COKER ELLSWORTH, 213 Whiteley, stated that apartments are the only alternate way of housing for young people who can't afford to buy a'house.~ He stated that if there are no apartments, the young people will leave the area away from their parents. He pointed out tfie demand for the Golden West Homes in:Grover City, because-they are a good price and good financing. He stated that people from L.A. can afford the houses, but the young people raised in this area can't. He would like to see the young people kept in the community and involved, and not lost to a large City. ELLA HONEYCITT, in fine with what Coker said, stated she would like to see housing for the young people. She suggested that in a 15-20 unit subdivi- sign, about 5 be put in at a lower price as a "trade-off", as is done in other areas, so young people could afford to buy them, and we_can keep them here. ART GRIEB, pointed-out that most apartments don't allow children and the ones that do run very high in monthly rentals. BOB McDONALD, stated he "remembers the kids picking apricots where now there's houses 'that Grieb's daughter can't afford". He feels this points out .real we 11 the problem, which is that we just can't support this speculation that. Mrs. Honeycutt spoke of. The community can't support this thing and the tax spenders are going to get used to spending huge amounts of money and the bubble is going to burst, like this other lady spoke of. "I think what they're calling it is-the Year of the Fool or something 'like that and it's going to come to an end. Because one fool buys a piece of property knowing that' another fool is going to come along and pay him another higher price. My daugher-in- law is in this business. so I know that's the truth.' And it's even shaking real estate operators now because speculators are buying a home with no intention of ever living in them or anything, but they put them immediately back on the market. The question he has in talking about these people lining up-for these homes here (Golden West in Grover City), is-how many of them want homes and how many are speculators? They can get in for a certain amount of money, but where are they from? Some of them are from down so~ith and they're sitting there wi tfi their pocketbook. and they're going to get in and a lot of them will never live there. They'll buy it and sell it with no intention of ever living in them. This is the thing I think our community has to avoid." "I hated to see the apricot business go out of town and the farming. land down in the valley with two or three coprs a year and people were working down there.....We're in a hurry_to increase our problems it looks to me like. And I think the Planning Commission should take a real hard look at where it is the money is goiing to come from. You can't get something for nothingand government can't give you -back taxes if_they don't take .away.. from you. So while they tell you you're going to lose-out this federal money or you're ..going to lose this state money, all this means is ,that the fact that they're going o take this money. away. from you and give it back to .you. I'd like to. see the Planning Commission and-City Council and all them take in consideration the fact of what this community will support and go accordingly on their housing and planning and in that direction." ART GRIEB, stated that it was the. State Welfare .that killed the apricot industry in the State of California, along with snap beans and every- thing that pertains to the high school and 7th and 8th graders going. out to work for farmers. He used to have as many as..3OO students working for them in the summer picking beans, tomatoes, cucumbers, apricots and most of it was piece work. The head of the State Welfare came out and said the farmer has to pay the difference, out of his pocket., between the prevailing wage scale and what .they make piece work, which killed the industry. LARRY VANDERVEER, Myrtle Street, complimented the Council and City Administration, feeling that City Administration is just fantastic and they all do a good job.. .Because of the dissension between the City Council and Planning Commission, he hopes they can get together and work toward what the citizens of the community want. He would like to see an aggressive Council which makes a decision and sticks with it, and not be wishy-washy. 351 CITY COUNCIL JUNE $, 1977 ARROYO GRANDE, CALIFORNIA PAGE 4 MRS. VANDERVEER, spoke about the speculation article mentioned earlier, stating she felt she had read the same article eluded to, but what she got out of it was that the speculators are not the builders or developers, but i't is the buyers who are doing the speculation. ALBERT STILLWELL, stated that speaking along the same lines, he hasn't heard of anyone buying options up here, but rather they are putting their money down. FRED STEELE, stated that economics plays an important part and the City should be aware and watch daily what happens. He felt that the fees for building are trifling. He feels .that if they were $6,000 he'd still say they were moderate for an R-1 house. He feels that property tax is very minimal, even though he expects his to double. within two years. He stated that Capital Improvement money is our income taxes coming back into the City and he is going to do everything he can to stop that. He doesn't like-paying such high income taxes, feeling there is a definite lack of balance between property tax and income tax. He stated. hisintention to write his Congressman and the President and do everything he can to keep this capital improvement with Revenue Sharing money from even being taken. He'd like to see the City get its share by raising the fees, because of the tremendous profit that the builder is ,making on each lot. MAYOR PRO TEM MILLIS reviewed that a year ago the City had a Civic Center Committee, whose job it was to study the space needs of the Gity Hall.. He felt said Committee had taken an interesting approach to that, which he- felt fits into the theme here. Our theme is "Looking to the Futu.re'' and the Committee started out with this basis: "Do we even need City government? And what do we want our City government to do for us, what serv-ices do we- .- want them to provide?" So he threw this out to the people, asking them what they would like City government to do; .what things would they like City govern- ment to do in the future? BOB McDONALD, stated that along that line, he voted as long as he could to keep Fair Oaks out of the City of A.G. for just the reason Mayor Pro Tem Millis was mentioning. He doesn't think the County of San Luis Obispo is too big to take care of Fair Oaks. If a sheriff is needed, he can get them as quick as the Police Department. The Fire Department saved a lot next door--at that time they were acre lots and there wasn't much danger of it spreading. He doesn't think we need City government, if that's the question we're interested in. He thinks we can do very well without it. He stated his opposition to the Santa Barbara County split, because of the additional supervisors, etc. this. will create, when he feels they should be getting rid of the City they've got. ALBERT STILLWELL, felt the foregoing might be a good idea. He thinks it would be a good idea if the Council and Planning Commission would not give variances in existing zones. He also stated that when he was a boy growing up in Santa Maria, they were talking about a Northern Santa Barbara County govern- ment at that time too. ELLA HONEYCUTT, felt we have a problem about grading outside of the City. Last week in the City, she stated the cement had already been poured at one development before the inspector had even been out. She asked how many building inspectors the City has and asked for verification that we loan him to other cities. She feels anyone should drive out Corbett Canyon Road, go through the big power lines till you see a "M r. Kuden" sign right up the hill, and see what they're doing to the countryside. In the 30's, she stated this land. was resalvaged(?) by the CCC people. In the '70's, this land is being torn~by development. She thinks the Council needs to-get together with the County because there is an area of influence. She also stated that these are local developers doing this. She said she is very, very concerned because of the erosion. JOHN KUDEN, stated that he has spent a lot of money to prevent erosion. ,The erosion Mrs. Honeycutt is talking about he says she's right about. She WPA did a terrible job and he is spending a lot of money and a lot of time to correct it. He had presented this problem to the City so the City would have control over that area, but the City declined (to annex the area). He invited Mrs. Honeycutt to check their plans, wherein she would see they 35w CITY COUNCIL JUNE 8, 1977 ARROYO GRANDE, CALIFORNIA PAGE 5 are doing everything they can to prevent erosion. If the property were in the City, he stated, she would not see the mess that's on the outside of the lots. RAY BAIR, Fair Oaks, stated he would like to see published. in the bulletin that comes out every once in a while (Newsletter)., the wages of each individual employee, what his functions are and what they're for.. He would like to know what the City Administrator's duties are in a small area that we have. He stated he would like to see the Councilmen get in and administer to the different departments and administer business that way. He doesn't feel we need a City Administrator, that it's too much money and we should get the City Council working instead of letting one person tell the Council and Mayor what to do, which is what it appears to him is happening. He feels we have a nice Police Department in this City-and a good Fire Department, both of which he complimented. He feels we have a lot of override at City Hall that is not necessary. He said that what we had and what we're educating is just .glorified welfare, indicating that if you don't work for the City there's no other place you can work in this community. He would like to see the City Council let the taxpayers know where their money is going and publish that instead of great things that they have done. He then related a story of a young man. who he let buy a lot from at a good price, so the young man could built a house, but was thwarted because of the fees the Gity was going to charge. He felt the City Councilmen and Planning Commission have no compassion when it comes to a young man who wants to build a house, and wants to know why the City can't curb expenses. He further feels that there is a surplus of labor in the City. ALBERT STILLWELL, asked whether it would be possible to have bhe agendas for the Planning Commission and City Counci'1 published previous to their. respective meetings. MAYOR PRO TEM MILLIS stated the agendas are available to the. pub i:c and that the Five Cities Times Press Recorder does usually publish a summary of major agenda items in their Friday newspaper, prior to the meetings. PAT VANDERVEER, stated she would like to see the business district west of the freeway beautified, stating the Village area is charming. JOE MOORE, stated he is aware we'll never get the three cities to get together, but wondered if some way couldn.'t be found to get some of the functions in the cities consolidated. He pointed out that it was tried to coordinate the recreation functions, which the other cities were not interested in, but he thought that maybe the Council is aware of other funct-ions that he is not aware of, where money could be saved by having one head or one department for the three cities. ELLA HONEYCUTT, stated her feeling that we're tied to closely to the federal government and asked whether we are losing home rules for receipt of grants and federal funds. BOB McDONALD, stated the he would leave us with these words: "The least governed is the best governed, and power to tax is the power to destroy". There being no further public discussion, Mayor Pro Tem Millis declared the .Town Meeting closed. He stated that some of these items brought up at these meetings will. be discussed at the upcoming City Council meeting and at that time decide whether a third Town Meeting will be held. If .not, the public input will be studied by the Council in study sessions. ADJOURNMENT On motion of Councilman Schlegel, seconded by Councilman Gallagher and unanimously carried, the meeting adjourned at 8:.50 P.M. ATTEST :c~=:~~`,~it-Q.- ~• ~ _ CITY CLERK AYOR PRO T M